The actual apology:
Recently we launched a site with several pages copied from 37signals' Highrise. We did more than take inspiration from their design - we actually used html & css code, and hotlinked to images on their site. We apologize to David and 37signals for ripping off their work. It was stupid, lazy, and disrespectful of their creative efforts. It's particularly painful for us to have done this to 37signals because they are big heroes of ours. We just hope they will accept our apologies.
I wonder how the community reconciles so many posters being up in arms about this event while frequently promoting stories from torrent freak and generally dismissing the belief that much harm comes from copyright infringement. Is it different when someone you know or respect is the injured party?
"Recently we launched a site with several pages copied from 37signals’ Highrise. We did more than take inspiration from their design – we actually used html & css code, and hotlinked to images on their site. We apologize to David and 37signals for ripping off their work. It was stupid, lazy, and disrespectful of their creative efforts. It’s particularly painful for us to have done this to 37signals because they are big heroes of ours. We just hope they will accept our apologies."
from Google cache http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&...
I hope they're A/B testing their apologies, because that one sucked.
The thing that amazes me most about this whole debacle is how completely unnecessary it was. Web designers are popping up everywhere like fucking mushrooms, and these guys (presumably pretty intelligent) chose to just steal a design.
Developing a nice-looking design is the easiest part of a startup. Generating the idea, interest, and funding is what stalls 98% of them. They had all that, but screwed up on the most doable aspect of the company. That alone greatly calls into question the judgment of the founders (not to mention the moral implications).
I'm sure I've seen the design of that "Error establishing a database connection" page somewhere before..
The copying seems to go deeper than just an experimental A/B test. Compare:
with the top half of
http://www.curebit.com/pricing
Edit: Replaced Basecamp signup page with Highrise signup page.
Pretty good apology Dave McClure wrote for them.
To everyone who thinks DHH and 37signals overreacted to this, keep in mind that the IA/UI paradigm introduced in Basecamp has been aped by many startups in their web apps with nary a whiff of public complaint.
It's one thing to copy the design of a marketing page (which is pretty weak), but to serve assets from that company's servers? Such an action is so idiotic and pathetic, that it's absurd. It's completely inexcusable and deserves to be called out whenever it happens.
You should probably edit the title to "Apology to 37signals, Kinoma, and LaunchBit"
Edit: The LaunchBit image is a stock photo. I apologize.
I think @dhh wasted a great opportunity to be a leader and a mentor. I think he should have asked allengrant to rise to the occasion. Instead he was incredibly rude and shared his contempt publicly!
It all seems so incongruent to me. On one side of the coin, 37s wants to share their results openly but on the other using the idea they shared makes him "a fucking scumbag." I understand there is a copyright violation involved. However, I suspected 37s would have been more... tactful.
Unfortunately, this is the second time 37signals has disappointed me in the last few weeks. As a customer, they violated my sense of privacy and almost as worse one of their partners is a total hot-head. Personally, and this is only my opinion based on no fact...In the back of my mind I am thinking "what would a hot-head that does not respect my companies privacy do with our information?!" To think I used to look up to them!
I almost feel bad for these guys but I understand why DHH was so pissed. Getting inspiration or even straight up stealing the HTLM and CSS is one thing, but referencing assets on 37signals servers is beyond the pale as 37signals is paying money to serve those assets.
This happened to a company I worked for, a company not only ganked our website but used pictures of our offices and staff we had on our about us page!
Maybe it's times like these where this bookmarklet is useful:
javascript:void((function(){var a=location.href.replace(/^http%5C:%5C/%5C/(.*)$/,'$1');location.href='http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:+escape(a);})())
Site down; see cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7NYBhgZ...
Looks like they didn't spend their $1.2m on getting a decent web server either - website down.
No matter how people on both sides react, they are all at the very least decently smart persons and an acceptable apology shouldn't be only a place for redemption. I can't imagine people at Curebit assuming that the ripoff wouldn't be discovered. So why did they do that?
Can someone explain why this is such a big deal? Genuinely curious. It seems the HN hivemind has a much stronger response to someone stealing a web designer's work vs, say stealing a Hollywood studio's work and hiding behind DMCA safe harbor.
I stumble upon stolen graphics so much time, when a company is not able to create an original landing page, how one can expect that company to create something more complex. This is not to say curebit won't succeed, but as one said "we are in a hard world" and people are looking where you succeed but also where you fail. I hope this mistake will be the last one until the go bigger otherwise i'm afraid the won't be forgiven one more time.
Minor nit, but what stuck me most about the apology was that Allan didn't include a link to http://37signals.com.
It's nice that they apologized, but aside from the ethics behind what they did, I think I'd be extremely weary of using Curebit. If they are lazy enough to directly copy HTML/CSS and not even go through the bother of copying images to their own server, where else are they cutting corners?
Has anyone heard from 37? Curebit is good tech that works, they have been more than fair in the few dealings I have had the privilege to work with them on. They, like most companies constantly change... how many logos did Google have. Rather than an indictment on them I see it as on the community. More help, more share, less complaining about things that really don't matter. In today's world product matters, template design is secondary to the many things they are doing daily to make a business. and 37 is the one company that goes out of their way to share what works and encourages startups to use their advice. So curebit made yet another change to their homepage...who cares save the few who tear down cause they cant build up. Allan, u created a great product, u made ur clients more money and are positioning yourself to lead a great new company. Commended u are, and your success will have nothing to do with the design of your homepage....if it were that easy.
Inexcusable but not a bad move in the end. This will all settle and be forgotten except that everyone will remember their name. Unethical and unwitting but a good publicity stunt nonetheless.
Clicking the link (to http://blog.curebit.com/) I'm getting 'Error establishing a database connection'.
Copying someone's layout, jacking a logo and mentioning A/B testing are seriously all it takes to get millions of funding???
I'm on the next flight out to the Valley!
Learned:
- Some people will actually steal your CHECK icons
- Over-bashing a stealer will not make you look nice
- Immediatism never seem to work on your side
The best way to break a site is to have it come on the front page of Hacker News!
I think DHH did it the wrong way, it is such an arrogant reaction. it is not like Curebit is a concurrent or something like that so they could have just sent an email asking remove the elements.
That's been said, but if this embarrassing event help someone to never ever steal elements again then it's is a goo thing.
Anyone has a friendly link to a summary of what happened?
Humility on either side would have gone a long way.
Curebit who? Not anymore. Well played.
And where's the apology from 37signals, venturebeat, and the submitters for helping to turn HN into TMZ?
The blog is down, I am getting "error establishing a database connection"
Worst apology ever!
Lean startup
Unfortunately, blog author did not get the lesson.. 37Signals was ONLY ONE-OF_SITES that Cutebit stole from..
Thy have clear habit of doing so
The site blog.curebit.com is down. Here's the cached version: "Apology to 37signals
Posted on January 28, 2012 by Allan Grant Recently we launched a site with several pages copied from 37signals’ Highrise. We did more than take inspiration from their design – we actually used html & css code, and hotlinked to images on their site. We apologize to David and 37signals for ripping off their work. It was stupid, lazy, and disrespectful of their creative efforts. It’s particularly painful for us to have done this to 37signals because they are big heroes of ours. We just hope they will accept our apologies."
Don't you think this is akin to piracy? Why are people so outraged about someone using a simple HTML page (or parts of it) without permission when illegally obtaining and using content such as movies or music is a daily occurrence, but you don't see people making a big fuss about that.
I'm not saying what he did was right as it obviously isn't, but making such an outrage about this seems a little bit over the top, IMO.
It seems the blog is completely down.
I understand they want to apologize quickly, but to me the post is so short that it comes off as not genuine. Even the title "Apology to 37signals" seems like they just don't really care.
All that said, it must suck to be in this position.
this is an example of the kind of sloppy stuff that happens when an angel investor with a big mouth and no taste puts money into 500 startups. you can't expect the best folks are gonna work with c-rate investors. cut rate investors = cut rate entrepreneurs. shame on this company for their blatant theft.
Database connection error...
Don't you have a Google+ account you could've posted it to instead of trying to host it in your own? Are you seriously trying to micro-manage your damage control this way?
I thought they vetted these people or something and would have a damage control recipe in place after the AirBnB debacle last year.
Startup Metrics for Pirates: AARRR! and steal peoples shit lol
Man! Curebit is definitely very wrong, but all those abuses just don't make a pretty read on my twitter feed. I am gonna unfollow DHH. I respect him a lot for what he's achieved, but all that profanity leaves a very very bad taste. Personal learning: never abuse. Those words mean nasty things.
I don't think anyone has a final answer, but really _how close_ do designs have to be so as to lack integrity? (assuming that they hadn't straight up lifted the CSS, images, button etc... which they did, which is clearly wrong.)
Ex: DHH says http://elance.com is inspiration, not theft. Ok.
Ex 2: A more difficult edge is http://coursekit.com I instantly recalled their design after seeing this scandal, although I'd initially taken note of it for its effectiveness.
Their similarity to basecamp is on the front page only, and no assets stolen. (full disclosure: competitor, vaguely, for a hackathon-started education product I'm working on.)
Like, we can think up a MILLION edge cases. That's not the point. I'm really, really curious to hear what you guys think the difference IS.
and please, please, PLEASE don't respond to this with vitriol on other side. if you think there are problems happening here in the way we treat design, and how ppl react, just DON'T add to it in that way.
EDIT: edited to match repost, because of downvote(?) here
The whole debate is frankly embarrassing for both sides... Of course, admittedly more so for Curebit - but I can't be the only one who thinks that DHH's cocky attitude, publicly tweeting things like "Fucking scumbags", is just embarrassing when he is the main face of a friendly and professional company like 37Signals...?