Envisioning a Simplified Intel Architecture

  • > Since its introduction over 20 years ago, the IntelĀ® 64 architecture became the dominant operating mode.

    *cough*[1]

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#History

  • For those truly too lazy to click through to the article, x86-S stands for "simplified," with the idea being to boot directly into 64-bit mode instead of booting into 16-bit and bootstrapping to 64-bit mode. 16-bit mode would be removed entirely. It's not clear to me if 32-bit mode would be axed as well, or if it would be retained (maybe partially).

  • 64Bit (OS) only and kicking out legacy cruft which doesn't just add complexity but also can in some edge cases can make security harder sound like a very sane idea, just maybe kinda late. I mean they probably could have started pushing this in some areas, like server and high-end CPUS, like 5-10years ago.

  • The only thing growing faster than the number of transistors is the number of pages in the specification. Ditching legacy is a good thing.

  • This makes no sense to me. Backward compatibility is a huge competitive advantage for Intel, and IMHO, it's royally messed up that vm86 mode doesn't work in 64-bit mode.

    One DOS application I use was hurt by this: "old DOS OrCAD". It works well in Windows-XP on a 32-bit machine, but does not work at all in 64-bit Windows. (It's actually a 32-bit DPMI program and has drivers to use Windows GDI so you don't have to mess around with drivers).

    More evidence: IBM 360 mainframe software still works in Z/OS.

    It might be worth it for non-generic computing devices like cell phones, but Intel missed the boat there already.

  • Legacy code has still important real-life functions to drive. That is clear.

    That Intel has to thread carefully to dump in-hardware 16 bit compatibility mode in 2023 is just sad.

    I can also see why who does not have to deal with so much baggage on their shoulders is capable of being much more nimble and drive innovation.

    Finally I can now better understand why Apple dumps an ISA every decade or so.

  • I said in 1994 that when Moore's Law finally stopped, we could go back and clean up all our hasty patches.

    Maybe Moore's Law really is dead.

    /tears for the end of Moore's Law, just shortly after that great man passed away.

  • > Since its introduction over 20 years ago, the IntelĀ® 64 architecture became the dominant operating mode.

    Okay that's a bit heavy on the retcon, don't you think?

  • > Intel is currently investigating for a 64-bit mode-only architecture referred to as x86S

    I wish AMD had started this instead of Intel so they could call it AE86.

  • I can certainly see how this is beneficial. At the same time it seems like it's a local optimum, to be eclipsed by other architectures. How much software really depends on 64-bit x86 architecture? And for how long?

    A large amount of server software can be reasonably ported to a new architecture. New platforms can adopt new architectures (phone/tablet, AR/VR). General purpose software like a web browser abstracts hardware, as does very popular software (as Facebook had, and WeChat does).

    Apple hasn't been tied to architectures and transitioned a number of times, always optimizing the whole rather than optimizing intermediate/stationary fixed points. If Intel is to make it to the next phase, it needs more than incremental improvements to compete. I hope that there's a path/future for AMD and Intel to evolve x86 and thrive but it won't be a given or easy.

  • Do not want.

    Did they not learn from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80376 or the infamous Itanic?

    The almost 50 years of backwards compatibility (along with the accompanying creation of a huge amount of documentation) is one of the strongest reasons for choosing the x86/PC.

    With each feature removal, they weaken that argument and push their (prospective) customers towards reconsidering all the other competitive CPUs out there like ARM, MIPS, RISC-V, etc. that are not distant in performance.

    Intel has made SoCs for phones, tablets, and other miscellaneous devices, but they weren't PC-compatible. Not surprisingly, they were not well-received.

    Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8091290

    Maybe it's time for a CISC-V...?

    Edit: apparently respecting history is not a popular opinion.

  • I wonder if Intel could open up x86s ISA. They need to transition to Foundry and there is no going back. Might as well open up x86s.