The last week reminds me of the story of Bardeen & Brattain's invention of the transistor (e.g. in The Idea Factory). It barely worked and heaven forbid you bump the table. There was even a third slighted figure who wanted credit. Part of me wants to be skeptical but OTOH if it's hard to reproduce that seems totally normal. How exciting that some other people have got it working now.
Why are folks trying to prove that this material is a superconductor in roundabout ways, like levitation, dimagnetism, etc? What is the reason they don't just test to see if electrical current flows without resistance? Surely there is something I am missing here.
Seems to be the same one that had a video a couple of days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36953396
Back then, many asked if this was superconduction or merely diamagnetism. Does the new paper shine any light on this question?
The Varda Team just posted a really high-resolution video of the diamagnetism:
https://twitter.com/andrewmccalip/status/1687405505604734978
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LK-99#Replication_attempts
This Wikipedia article has a good summary of the replication attempts to date (including this paper).
This is the first time in years where I physically have goosebumps the more this seems to be verified. In a good way.
The potential changes this can introduce is equivalent to when Faraday, Volte, and all the other 17th/18th century scientists started figuring out how electricity works. They had no idea how much it would change every aspect of life in the century to come after them.
I get the idea of superconductivity at room temperature in theory. But I don't have enough knowledge to understand in real terms, how will the world change if this is true?
One somewhat ironic fact of this story is that the rogue former employee perhaps deserves some credit for bringing this thing out into the world.
They had been working on this for quite a long time themselves, rightfully so. But now the whole world is working on it and exploring other methods and combinations of materials I would assume (to improve upon the original design and avoid any patents).
How long would they have kept this thing to themselves without the rogue employee bringing this thing to light?
Perhaps that was part of the rogue former employee's motivation in "going rogue": that this thing needs to see the light of day so it can start to benefit humanity.
So far lab replication efforts are:
Two from HUST: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV14p4y1V7kS/ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV13k4y1G7i1/
One by USTC https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ex4y1X7ix/ this tiny sample can stand on its pointy side.
One by Qufu Normal University https://www.zhihu.com/zvideo/1669820225079070720
One with THU background but claims a personal project https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV14z4y1s7Vo
Why are't more labs outside China making LK-99 and publish videos?
On the following suppositions:
1: Superconductivity becomes widely confirmed
2: Reproducibility remains microscopic
Imagine a game of rolling a collection of n dice (normal 6 sided), where the player wins if all N dice are 4 or higher (probability 1/2 for a single dice).
Then the probability of a lucky roll is P = (½)ⁿ
So the smaller the collection of dice the more likely a lucky roll becomes.
Consider a hypothetical continuous production method of LK-99, where the fraction of wire in superconducting arrangement is a function of its thickness, more likely if thinner.
Could one simply re-anneal (and possibly re-quench) a short non-superconducting section until we get lucky, then proceed to the next non-superconducting section?
"Lucky annealing" fortune cookies?
>we successfully verify and synthesize the LK-99 crystals which can be magnetically levitated with larger levitated angle than Sukbae Lee's sample at room temperature. It is expected to realize the true potential of room temperature, non-contact superconducting magnetic levitation in near future.
Aaaand we’re back!
I’m really trying to remain (reasonably, not ideologically) skeptical but if this is legit this is a huge step towards confirmation.
I'm looking forward to experiments with LK-99 and twistronics. What a time to be alive.
Assuming this is indeed the holy grail of superconductivity... can someone with knowledge on manufacturability of these materials, suggest a prediction of when the specific LK-99 material would be ready for mass production? Is it ~3 years from now or more like ~15 years from now?
All of the "it floats" videos are unattributed leaks or come from less-than-reputable sources.
The reputable sources only ever show videos of the sample touching the magnet.
From what I'm reading, several different types of materials can angle themselves like this from a magnet, but only Type II superconductors will float above a single monolithic magnet.
Until we see a confirmed video from a reputable source of a visible gap between the sample and the magnet, it's not confirmed that LK-99 is superconducting.
I no nothing about superconductors. And have been largely ignoring this until it seemed more certain.
Can someone ELI5 why this matters? What does it enable technologically?
Flying cars? Fusion reactors? Magic fix for global warming?
It’s a breath of fresh air reading about actual revolutionary science happening.
The deluge of news about non-replicable results, fabricated data, overhyped press releases from both academia and industry had become really depressing. For once after a long time it’s the real deal.
Even if this is not a RT superconductor, it’s now evident that the original authors didn’t cheat and are not crackpots as initially suspected by most.
For me it's also interesting how we closed the gap between scientific discoveries and the general public to know about them. With the advent of pre-print servers, you can read this basically "next day".
So what the heck has happened with LK-99 really? (Disclaimer: I'm no physicist nor chemist, but I have co-written a report on three LK-99 papers [1] and am tracking the Twitter discussion as much as I can. I also got some help from knowledgable friends---much thanks for proof-reading.)
It turned out that LK folks were not talking about some stupid shit. Specifically they were one of the last believers of long-forgotten Russian theory of superconductivity, pioneered by Nikolay Bogolyubov. The accepted theory is entirely based on Cooper pairs, but this theory suggests that a sufficient constraint on electrons may allow superconductivity without actual Cooper pairs. This requires carefully positioned point defects in the crystalline structure, which contemporary scientists consider unlikely and such mode of SC was never formally categorized unlike type-I and type-II SC. Professor Tong-seek Chair (최동식) represented a regret about this status quo (in 90s, but still applies today) that this theory was largely forgotten without the proper assessment after the fall of USSR. It was also a very interesting twist that Iris Alexandria, "that Russian catgirl chemist", had an advisor who was a physicist-cum-biochemist studied this theory and as a result were so familiar with the theory that they were able to tell if replications follow the theoretical prediction.
Fast forward to today, students of the late Chair continued the research and produced a possible superconducting substance---LK-99---based on the Russian theory. A lot can be said about papers themselves, but it should be first noted that this substance is not a strict superconductor in the current theory. Prof. Chair once suggested that we need to trade off some (less desirable) properties of superconductors for room-temperature superconductivity, and that property seems to be isotropy. This particularly weakens the Meissner effect criterion due to the much reduced Eddy current, so there is a possibility that LK-99, even when it's real, might not be accepted as a superconductor in the traditional sense. LK folks on the other hand think they should be also considered a superconductor, but they are probably already aware of this possibility.
If we allow anisotropy in this discussion, we do have lots of such things already, most importantly carbon nanotubes. Scientists even thought about the possibility that they may function as typical superconductors [2], without any success though. So it might be appropriate to say that LK-99 is a substance that mimics them in one direction, but much more malleable. And that is an actually significant result (if true, of course) because for most uses a strict type-I superconductor is far more than sufficient, while implications of superconductivity are more achievable. We so far looked for strict superconductors only because we didn't know the effective way to trigger superconductivity otherwise; LK-99 might change that situation.
This whole discourse should make you more careful to conclude whether LK-99 is a superconductor or not, because we may well end up with a revised definition of SC as a result. If LK-99 makes superconductivity much easier to trigger it should be considered a superconductor in the macroscopic sense, authors would argue. Only the time will tell if they indeed made such a substance and it would be malleable enough to be substitutes for other superconductors, but they have a long history and arguably received unfair treatments. And they are about to fight back.
[1] https://hackmd.io/@sanxiyn/S1hejVXo3 (Semi-automatically translated: https://hackmd.io/DMjYGOJFRheZw5XZU8kqKg)
[2] For example, https://twitter.com/MichaelSFuhrer/status/168696072754495897...
----
This post is now also available as a standalone version: https://hackmd.io/@lifthrasiir/lk-99-prehistory & https://twitter.com/senokay/status/1687360854315151360
Update from 2 hours ago https://twitter.com/floates0x/status/1687296154416066560
"LK-99 Updates around the Korean Verification Committee:
- Sample will not be released today/tomorrow
- Group waiting on peer review (implied to be APL materials) and could take 2-4 weeks
- Sample possibly with APL Materials, which is why it cannot be provided to verification committee
- Team is asking the Verification committee for a detailed plan on how the committee intends to perform the verification before proceeding
Now, Hyun-Tak Kim also issued the following quote in regards to the Korean Verification Committee: '돈을 빌려서 어렵게 사업하는 분들한테 와서 조직적으로 횡포를 부리는 것은 바람직하지 못하다"며 이같이 밝혔다'."
Can anyone translate the Korean?
On a completely different front, let's say the paper completely checks out and they have discovered this miracle. How strong are the patent protections on materials science?
For example, if someone could replicate the effect with lead + gold, would that be considered a novel material which would not be subject to licensing? Is it the material itself or the method of production?
video[0] linked from wikipedia[1] showing the levitation in action.
So, these folks replicated the material and it does highly unusual things, is that right ? It had seemed the fabrication process was still very dodgy and unreliable, this team got it to work independently?
It is getting crazier every second it passed. Multiple labs trying to replicate and everyone get a different result. The only thing we know is that LK-99 is something that nobody understands
I'm not too familiar with this space. Could someone explain how big of an impact to the world this discovery is? What does the future of this technology look like over the next 5 years?
This could have a huge impact on the feasibility of future quantum computers relying on exotic quasiparticles requiring stability at more practical conditions.
If we are able to make superconductor magnets, create a fusion reactor and as a same time have lossless transmissions of power. Would it make energy extremely cheap ? Can access to energy become free and delivered as a commodity by countries to attract businesses and taxpayers ? This would be mind blowing, with this and automation/robotisation of work, life as we know it today will seam very ancient for next century generations.
Also, are there other blocking points for inertial confinement fusion ? Would it also make solar power and wind farm pointless ?
I believe this is the first paper on arxiv that links to www.bilibili.com:
Supplementary video 1：Meissner effect for sample 2.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV14p4y1V7kS/?spm_id_from=333... c8fec748481fb4b933932e80c
Supplementary video 2：Exclude ferromagnetism of sample 2.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV13k4y1G7i1/?buvid=XY81B1F84... A291&is_story_h5=false&mid=jLEqsyica5eHkvtMXQ2K1A%3D%3D&plat_id=193&share_from=ug c&share_medium=android&share_plat=android&share_source=QQ&share_tag=s_i×tamp= 1690894807&unique_k=B6gawMH&up_id=7590247
"Some remarks on possible superconductivity of composition Pb9CuP6O25" - https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2308/2308.01723.pdf
Anyone more qualified than me care to comment on whether the picture in figure 1c, which shows what appear to be pure copper islands on the outside of the material, supports the idea of a heterogenous material in that the reaction either wasn't complete or resulted in impure output?
Alright folks calm down, the resistivity of LK-99 is higher than copper... https://twitter.com/bedoya_pinto/status/1686776302785773573
There have been quite a few papers about LK-99, but the only thing I want to see is whether we observer sudden drop of resistance to zero below the critical temperature that is well above the room temperature at ambient pressure or not. So far, I haven't seen one.
If you believe it there’s money to be made
https://polymarket.com/event/is-the-room-temp-superconductor...
This makes me so happy for my children and their children. God bless those scientists and all scientists that push our species forward. I'm so lucky to be in my prime at the same time AGI and superconductors become a reality. Wow.
Where will the money flow from here, presuming that the reproduction keeps happening?
I hope Smith charts become less required learning. When I was in school, I could not wrap my head around them. I should look at them against. (Yes, of course you’d still need to account for traditional loads)
Wow, is this it? Is this the confirmation?
This is ELI5 stupid Q:
What may be the benefit of running a sequence of "coils" or whatever the Loops may be comprised of such that the N/S to whatever polarity positions are required, could be an LK-99 then a super cooled, then an LK-99 etc...
If it was in a toroidal spiral (everyone things of the trajectories as linear, but toroidals spirals are most efficient)
you could have hybrid tracks - where maybe a linear launch is good, but a toroidal control for spins off routing is ideal (think a 3d roundabout - to launch vessels diff directions...
I want to believe. Yet I've got this old song[0] going through my head...
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
What a time to be alive
Can I ask why we're using a special definition of "levitation" that doesn't really mean levitation? I'm finding it very annoying to click headlines that say "Levitation of LK-99!", and... ohh it's still standing on one end.
I'm sure this is a promising discovery and everything, but saying "levitation" at this stage is very forward-looking, and for me - a bit cynicism-inducing.
Any process chemists here care to comment on this synthesis? I'm craving more information from these papers on the synthesis: weights, sources, purities, and powder sizing of precursors, models of ovens, glass details, etc. etc.
When there's clearly big and important differences between everyone's outputs using the "method similar to that reported by Sukbae Lee et al." then it's important to know every detail!
This coming days/weeks are going to be exciting, I really hope we just witness the biggest breakthrough in physics or even science in recent decades.
Not only is this cool to watch and I'm crossing my fingers that their claims are legit, but it is always so cool to see those moments in science where the whole world comes together to work on something. Is this excitement and teamwork what it really means to be human?
Noob question. Does this breakthrough also translate to advancements in quantum computing? Can we expect quantum computers with far more qbits?
Disclaimer, I have not vetted this at all, but if anyone is up for speculative excitement, this is the video to watch: https://m.douyin.com/share/video/7263715495256378659
Here is a good thread on what could be realized if we had room temperature superconducting materials at our hands:
What is the summary here? Did we find the superconductor or not and still under verification and replication?
Thanks, can I scream my hype out, now?
Fantastic news!!! Kudos to all concerned and looking forward to the levitating automobiles!
So, hoverboards? Excellent.
If this thing really was super conducting, they should be able to rotate the sample upside down from flux pinning right? That's why this thing is probably just a magnet and not a superconductor??
For newbies, what's the potential impact of this discovery? Electronics? Better electrical stuff in general? What else?
China is taking the lead, they harvest the fruit of their massive investment in education 20 years ago, congrats!
I truly hope this happens, can't wait to see the amazing impact it will have in our lives.
Is a perpetual motion machine now possible with a room temp superconductor like this?
My excitement in this breakthrough raised the room temperature by 1 degree.
What are the next best materials to test according to br-bcs theory?
What are the implications of this, assuming it's true? I'm ignoring the controversy over Chinese scientific paper publishing. Aside from a fidget spinner, how would near-ambient superconducting magnetic levitation impact me?
It's likely we will be able to grow full working organs, tissues and limbs in a lab before we can reanimate frozen bodies. So wouldn't be more efficient to cryopreserve only the brain?
for complete tourists like myself, does this represent conclusive evidence of superconductivity in this sample or does it require more?
How hard/expensive is this LK-99 to produce?
Does anyone else just upvote stories like this because you know everyone else is up voting ? It has that nerdy, must up vote even if you don't get it vibe about it.
Hao Wu is an immunologist.
I hope he isn't connected to Stanford's Nolan.
LK-99 is weirdly connected to UFO lore, so I'd want to be cautious.
What are the implications of this for global warming? Would we be able to ditch most of fossil fuel usage (eventually)?
Ok, didn't read it. What about electric resistance at room temperature ambient-pressure under critical current?
Now measure resistance.
I love how the nytimes front page is just all Trump and political crap. Literally not a word about this, and if it's real, its like the biggest thing ever.
hello
For those experiencing this type of "black swan, but good" event for the first time, it is helpful to recognize that the human tendency to believe that all future "big events" will be dystopian downers, is statistically unsound.
For a while I've kept a list of the things that could be "good" swan events, but to be fair I didn't have "room temperature superconductor on that list" :-)
Other things that could happen:
1) Fully decoding the cellular mechanism of cells allowing for the curing of any disease, repairing any genetic disorder.
2) Commercially viable fusion energy. Will change a lot of things.
3) An AI subsystem with some reasoning ability (yeah, could go either way)
Etc.
lol
EDIT: This is probably fake. The account was just created and can't find any info online. Also the pellet returns to its starting position for some reason.
Just saw another unconfirmed replication here: https://twitter.com/instsondaw/status/1687433935012139008?s=...
Found their process really fascinating, apparently they create L-99 powder, sort it by meissner effect, then press the "high meissner effect" powder together
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Psssft, room temperature, Chuck Norris does it in his sauna.
i wonder if this will become the next version of hopium, where we struggle to refine a material that can actually be used in a wide enough temperature range to operate outside.
Cold fusion all over again. All the internet predictions of what this will bring are kinda cringey and pathetic
Not to be anti Eastern or anything but are there any results from the global west being worked on? Say a university in the US or UK /Europe?
I have no reason to doubt the quality or integrity of research published elsewhere but I would love to see some research from multiple sources including a diverse geography.
Korean scientists embody key cultural values: (Jeong) fosters deep bonds and commitment to their work; (In-gan-mi) encourages inherent honesty and sincerity; (Che-Myun) upholds honor, discouraging dishonesty; and Confucianism instills respect, loyalty, and duty. These values shape their dedication to research integrity and professional conduct. I choose to believe!
This is obviously a quickly produced paper to get the finding out but.... I find there to be so much missing and so many things poorly worded or posed about their process that would have taken zero time to expound upon, it's infuriating.
"All the reactions are carried out under 10^-2 Pa"
OK, I know they mean 10^-2 of vacuum. But why not say that? "10^-2 Pa" isn't enough. Was this a full vacuum oven? Done in sealed quartz vials? Was there a purge, like argon, or just air?
If you look at the oven temperature profiles, you can see the ramp up time (0-2hr, 0-2hr, and 0-4hrs respectively), and the hold time, but the ramp down time isn't specified! There is no cooling rate, it just shows... a line drop off, with no end time. No label. This can be very critical. Were these just pulled straight out and air quenched? And were they kept under vacuum until at room temp or not?
Like, adding extra experimental setup details would take no time whatsoever to include in a paper and yet these researchers just don't do it. It's either pure fucking laziness or some sorta holier-than-thou gatekeeping that comes from theoreticians, or a combination, and it is the reason that replication is so hard in science right now. I would hope that no journal would accept this shit.