Congrats on the launch! Sounds like an exciting project. Do you plan to store also the raw data (input + output)? It can be relevant for fine-tuning, optimizing costs, etc. Since you already store metadata, I think it makes sense to have a one-stop shop.
Congrats on the release! Having built several LLM apps in the past months and embarking on a couple new ones, I’m excited to take a look at Langfuse.
Are there any alternatives you’d also suggest evaluating, and any particular strengths/weaknesses we should consider?
I’m also curious about doing quality metrics, benchmarking, regression testing, and skew measurement. I’ll dig further into Langfuse documentation (just watched the video so far) but I’d love any additional recommendations base on that.
Congrats on the launch! This is really cool. Would love to see OTel integration in the future. I'm curious if this might eventually work with request-context based routing, i.e. being able to use the propagated metadata between layers to dynamically test different versions of the stack, replay requests / route to specific underlying implementation versions at different levels of the stack.
Cool stuff and congrats on the Show HN! Out of curiosity, at what point do you see teams usually adopting something like langfuse? In regular development, you sometimes even have test-driven development - I imagine this doesn't really apply for LLMs. Do you see this changing over time as the process of building LLM apps becomes more mature?
Many great points/ideas here and on Discord, thanks HN!
For those reading this thread later, feel free to reach out with any feedback or questions marc at langfuse dot com
If you’re looking to replace Looker with open source and the ability to style it to your needs maybe a mix of cube.dev plus tremor.so would do the trick?
Awesome. There is a definitely a need for LLM product analytics that is currently completely underserved by traditional tools like GA, Mixpanel, etc.
I’m curious if you investigated the TimescaleDB extension that is built into Supabase for your usecase? And if so, what was the pros and cons?
Congrats on the launch!
I have quite a few years of observability experience behind me and hand't really considered some of the unique aspects that LLMs bring into the picture. Here are a few thoughts, responses to your questions, and feedback items
* Generally, I think you do a good job of having a clear, concise story and value proposition that is fairly early in a market where the number of people hitting these problems is rapidly growing, which is a pretty nice place to be! But, I do think that can be a challenge in that you have to help people recognize the problem, which often means lots of content and lots of outreach.
* I think going open-source and following a PLG model of cloud/managed services is pretty reasonable way to go and certainly can be a leg up over the existing players, but I noticed in your pricing a note about enterprise support of self-hosting in customer VPC and dedicated instances. There is lots of money there... but it also can just be extremely big time sink for early stage teams, so I would be careful, or at least make sure you price it such that it supports hiring.
* Also on pricing, I wonder if doing this based on storage is how people would think about? Generally, I think about observability data in terms of events/sec first and then retention period. If you can make it work with a single usage based metric of storage, than that is great! but I would be concerned that 1) you aren't telling the user which plan can support throughput and 2) you could end up with some large variance in cost based on different usage patterns
* The biggest question I have is how much did you explore opentelemetry? Obviously, it is not as simple as just going and building your own API and SDK... but when I look at the capabilities, I could see opentelemetry being the underlying protocol with some thinner convenience wrappers on top. From your other comments, I understand that you see some ways in which this data is different than typical trace/observability data, but I do wonder if that choice will 1) scare off some companies that are already "all in" on otel and 2) you don't get any opportunity to use all of the stuff around otel, for example, Kafka integration if you someday need that.
* As far as your question about OLAP, I wouldn't rush it... In general, once you are big enough that the cost/scalability limitations of PG are looming, you will be a different company and know a lot more about the real requirements. I will also say that in all likelihood, ClickHouse is probably the right choice, but even knowing that, there are lots of different ways to tackle that problem (like using hosted vs self-managed) and the right way to do it will depend on usage patterns, cost structure, where you end up with enterprise dedicated / self-hosted, etc. I will mention though that timescaledb is not a bad way to maybe buy you a bit of headroom, but it is important to note that the timescaledb offered by supabase shouldn't be compared to timescaledb community / cloud. The supabase version isn't bad, it just isn't quite the same thing (i.e. no horizontal scalability)
Anyways, congrats again! It looks like you are off to a good start.
If you have any other questions for me, my email is in my profile.
Congrats on the launch! Curious to learn what specific use case you have seen around observability of LLM apps which are not covered by standard observability tools like DataDog, SigNoz, etc
Also, how do you compare in terms of features with DataDog's LLM monitoring product which was launched recently?
Disclaimer : I am a maintainer at SigNoz
> We will need to move to an OLAP database soon and are debating if we need to start batching ingestion
Highly recommend https://tinybird.com for this – they're a fantastic OLAP DB for ingesting & visualizing time-series data!
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Congrats on the release! I'm keenly interested in this space, as I believe that Observability is one of the top ways to steer LLMs to be more reliable in production.
I noticed your SDKs use tracing concepts! Are there plans to implement OpenTelemetry support?