Everyone knows don't shit where you eat, but what about "don't work with your passions"
If you enjoy doing computer stuff (coding, repair and building, management, etc) don't work in that industry. I've had this thought for a really long time about how if my work is sitting down and my hobbies are all sitting down, it is really hard to maintain a good schedule of forcing yourself to stay in shape and commit to a lot of exercise because frankly I don't really enjoy it and it just takes time away from what I actually want to be doing. If I were to just work a job that forces me to get exercise, like the forest service or a construction worker or anything that is very manual labor focused, I get all of my exercise needed as part of my job, and then I also get to do whatever I want at home without feeling guilty and I don't get burned out.
I think the world really needs to stop telling people that they need to do what they love, I think you really need to do something that you can tolerate doing for 30 years. Even my job was doing drugs and having sex all day, I still probably wouldn't love it after a while, if my job was playing video games I wouldn't love it, if my job was doing community service but paid, I wouldn't love it. But I enjoy all of those things outside of work, probably because they aren't work!
If you're going to spend all of your days coding, you're clearly going to lose interest in coding because that's just how work is: you don't want to do it!
You are likely getting bored. My guess is that you are a bright person who needs to exercise their brain and isn't seeing enough opportunity in your current situation.
Gamedev keeps me occupied outside of my 9-to-5. Pick an engine: GoDot, Monogame, even Unreal or Unity. Pick a simple game to mimic or emulate, and see how far you get. Don't worry about it looking nice; focus on applying your education to it (i.e. try to encapsulate functionality, write tests, etc.). I've been working off and on with the same project for over a decade just for fun, and I find it both stimulating and challenging.
Give it a shot; at least you can blog about it and consider it a hobby entry for your resume.
Education improves your capabilities even if you don't work directly on what you studied. I have a degree in Fine Arts. I spent many years as a coder, then moved into product leadership. My Art degree has helped every step of the way, as it taught me a creative process, how to look at the structure and details of how things are created, how to understand people based on what they create, and other such things that sound wishy-washy but did have a positive impact on how I approach software development.
So I would expect your CS education to likewise offer value in non-CS industries. You may have to put some thought into exactly what you learned other than the face-value bullets points in the curriculum, and then focus on how you can apply them to your new industry. But you don't need to feel that the work and time was wasted.
I've been a software engineer for nearly 20 years now, and you know what I do when I hav the time? I blow glass. Honestly I enjoyed writing code much more when I was a teen and in college in my free time, but now that I do it 40 hours a week I need something else. Sure I have some programming projects I do outside of work. But they are needed for something else I help run. Besides now that I'm nearly 40, I have a house and family to look after. I barely have time to take care of those with my full time job.
Just think about how much better off you are than just about everyone you interact with in your daily life.
Then think about the objective fact that you’re unfathomably better off than just about everyone you’ll never interact with.
This is how I frame my world.
Subconsciously you conquered one mountain. Now your brain seeks new challenges. Seems like a good thing to me.
Agree with the other comments saying that no experience is ever a waste. Even if you never work another day as a software engineer, that skill set and way of tackling problems will remain useful in anything you do.
One thing I'd say about finding a side project is: think about what motivates you about the work. The most fun I've had on a side-project recently was just coding a google spreadsheet macro for something that my friends and I have to do semi-regularly. Knowing who the audience for the thing was and how they would benefit from it greatly helped my motivation.
But maybe you get more motivated by solving truly difficult challenges. In that case I'm sure there are some OSS projects out there eager for contributors. It's really down to what gets you fired up.
Why is it going to waste? Why do you need to build something right away?
I have meant plenty of folks with software engineering backgrounds who do other work.
If you’re not feeling passionate about software engineering at the moment, why force it? I suggest taking a break.
If you want to do a side project, let it come more naturally.
Depending upon which technology they trained in most junior developers focus entirely on either how to write code or how to put classes together. The problem is that they are only focused on how to write code, not how to write applications. If you are practicing how to write applications then how to write the code is implicitly practiced.
If you have done this kind of work long enough you get burnt out on people constantly pushing bad suggestions based on trends to compensate for personal insecurity where those suggestions are unnecessarily complex. This results in hostility towards simplicity in favor of immediacy and comfort with great risk not visible until later when it can no longer be ignored.
I write programs at work. I don't do a lot of coding at home. I have a "Cybersecurity Esq" type job, which involves coding about 75% of the time, and the other 25% of the time is boring work. When I don't get enough coding time, I usually find myself working on projects at home. If I'm not coding, I work on fixing up some vintage computers, or soldering together small projects (that I can then code later). I don't think "hmm I haven't done enough coding this week" I just do what I want, and generally if I do a lot of coding at work, I'm not so interested in coding at home. If you're spending your coding energy at work and not at home, is that a problem for you? Get a hobby, it doesn't have to be coding. One thing I like to do is practice DJing (I suck at it, but I try), or fix up old game consoles. I think it goes back to why you got into programming in the first place - was it instant gratification, or did you think you could make things work in new ways, infinite possibilities, optimizations, or what? For me, I like the problem solving aspect of it, and it turns out I can get my 'problem solving' fix from repairing broken electronics as well.
People change over time.
I graduated college absolutely certain I would be a day trader on Wall Street for the rest of my life.
And I did that for about 7 years.
But 5 years in or so I started to realize I didn’t quite like it. I actually was more interested in writing code to solve my trading problems. But what really appealed to me there was the writing code bit.
It took about a full year of my mini identity crisis for me to realize, there were other jobs out there I could enjoy. And the career my 20 year old self had picked wasn’t my ultimate path.
It’s OK to change directions.
Continue to reflect on what you want for yourself. Don’t try to predict too far out because it will likely change. But think about the next year or three, where do you want to be?
Once you have a rough idea in mind you can think backwards about what steps are needed to get there.
Hang in there, self reflection is tough but very worthwhile.
Your previous experience absolutely has and will NOT go to waste. I can’t tell you how many times my finance experience has helped me at my software jobs or just in life.
While it may not be directly related to your new job, that experience is there, helping you in more ways than you realize.
The question itself belies the fact that your career hasn't been that long.
The overwhelming majority of people who have been in a career for decades are NOT doing it because they can't wait to get up and do it each day. They're doing it FOR THE MONEY!
Ask yourself these simple questions. Do you like:
1) Eating?
2) Living inside?
3) Using transportation?
4) Engaging in activities for entertainment?
If you answered YES to any of these questions, then you're going to need money.
Unless you're the beneficiary of a large trust, then you're going to have to work a job for that money.
It's important to pick a career that you have an interest in, but if you expect to get up 30 years from now and have the same enthusiasm you had on day 1, you're almost certainly over-optimistic.
So, look at the practical ramifications of moving away from S/W engineering:
Does your new endeavor provide you with a viable livelihood?
Is it interesting enough that you can keep doing it AFTER you've lost your initial enthusiasm for it?
Of course, you probably won't follow this advice. Because reality is not something that is understood by most people at your age. There's really no way around this. Just keep going for 30 years, then you'll know what I'm talking about...
Two primary things turn me off from software engineering, which I otherwise love and have been doing for a quarter century now.
1. Building software can be more akin to painting a picture than building a house. A team of software engineers is like a group of artists at a canvas with all sorts of different preferences, brushes, techniques, etc. I don’t think we’ve efficiently solved for that in a way that’s enjoyable.
2. The pace at which you’re supposed to adapt, raise funds, build, scale, etc has a toxic feeling, probably how Wall Street money managers feel like they have to chase alpha, make certain gains per year, etc. it leads people and companies to do dumb, irrational things that frustrate and confuse.
My personal approach has been to try and separate myself from #2 as much as possible. Ignore anything anyone has to say unless I feel it in my bones they’re right. I don’t drink ycombinator’s cool-aid, or DHHs, PGs or anyone else. I listen to what people have to say and incorporate it into my OWN mental model of how software engineering has worked for me.
Also, I like to work on projects either alone or with very small focused teams where I can be expressive. That means if I’m going to take over code, I want to be able to learn something or adapt it to my standards. I prefer to work on things start to finish.
When I sit down to code, I try to push this website and everything and everyone’s’ opinions out of my mind. I picture myself in an office far removed from anything Silicon Valley, Google, or bright colors, or that strange mix of Machiavellian and Aspergers. This is my thing I get to do with it what I want. My canvas. My brushes. I’ve been doing it too long for it to be any other way now.
I think that’s how you can enjoy programming again too.
the side project needs to solve a problem and be useful.
If you don't have an idea take the problem of writing an offer for a service like an ad campaign (ad - size - weeks running - price) in a local newspaper, people need to calculate it, word it and format it into a pdf or something to send. Program the calculation from the sqlitedb prices, rope in gpt to word it and offer a number of combinations etc. and use a library or program to create the nicely layouted pdf. It needs to get the input via a form hosted on a linux box in the local newspaper office so the windows dudes and the mac dudes can use it and nobody needs to install nothing.
report back on how it went - good luck sailor
A few thoughts in no particular order:
- I can only use a side project to drive learning if I actually care about the product of that side project. So if you're like me, maybe start by identifying some work-product care about, and hopefully it will require you to flex/learn some skills including software dev.
- Is it possible you're experiencing a sunk-cost fallacy here?
- Are you hoping to steer your career back into software development? That could affect which particular projects, languages, etc. you work with, because of marketability.
I enjoy writing software a lot but I don't enjoy doing it as part of a large team.
I'm currently exploring doing part time contract work as well as working on a side project. I really enjoy both. I'm making less money than I was before (still enough tolive off) but I'm hoping to get better at this and up the income.
Think about what you do enjoy doing and then try to figure how to turn that into a job.
I also changed what I did quite frequently early in my career. I think that's OK if you're not sure what you want to do. In fact it's more than OK, you're exploring different possibilities.
If I was going to recommend a side project, I'd maybe think about what you enjoyed when you were tinkering around, and go and do some more tinkering.
Anti depressants are helping me get through something similar. My role has gone from solving interesting problems many years ago, to the time tracking everything, documenting everything, planning everything and a whole host of soul boring tasks which makes the role less efficient but has a paper trail to avoid blame.
The great thing about tech is the vast array of fields within it.
Writing embedded firmware for space rockets is light years (pun intended, haha) from a fast paced scrappy startup. Neither is better than the other to anyone but yourself.
Perhaps finding a purpose to put your skills to might help?
stepping away from something you think you're good at is the only way to break the cycle of any complacency you may have developed
This is something normal that could happen in your career. Happened to me twice, first was young and broke, but somehow I managed to leave my hometown and went backpacking for six months, and I paid for the trip with the only skill I had and was also hating, programming, and ended up doing freelance through my whole trip, and helped me get back in track. The second time was two years ago, was burned out after a failed entrepreneurial attempt and with an impostor syndrome, took one sabbatical year, did a business boot camp, studied a lot, from the very basic, got another job, and got promoted to engineering manager one month ago. Just take your time to rest and educate yourself. Look at things from other perspectives and keep moving forward.
Switch to security :)
nah, bro. it's fine. even if you're working in computer programming field, it's also fine to not interested in programming. though it's not to say that you should not give any shit about your work.
there's a lot more than programming while the other say life has no meaning. pick your poison.
Couple thoughts on this, since I have also lost most interest I used to have.
1) It always feels like it's getting stolen and given to somebody wealthy's bank account. Kind of like this publication. [1] I tend to be honest and hard working at my software jobs. I get given extra work with no pay, while drawing aggro from my coworkers for making them look bad. Guy who schmoozes and sends distracting GIFs at work to the boss, goes on golf retreats. I'm used until they can burn me up and throw me away, while most of the office sighs that they finally drove me away.
2) Most places have a severe opposition to actual change. Software's one of the worst. If somebody had not released LLMs and TTIMs, nobody would have. The moat's too ephemeral, the market advantage too short. Amazon / Google / Apple / Netflix all want businesses where they do no effort and have infinite returns. Netflix barely makes shows. Check Nielsens. [2] "Grey's Anatomy", "Gilmore Girls", "Six Feet Under", "NCIS", "Suits"? They're all acquired and other than "Suits" 20+ years old. Google cancels anything that might interfere with core market, moving ads. Amazon generated the idea of "enshitification" with Bezos fighting over burning the diaper industry to the ground, so he could get his diapers.
3) Actual advice a) Try Challenge.gov [3] There's actually some neat Challenges. The Library of Congress had one recently that I made a game for [4] mostly for the same reasons you're noting. It was actually "mostly" enjoyable as long as I didn't take it super seriously.
4) Actual advice b) Try the NASA mailing list [5] They have hundreds of grant and funding proposals every year, and many involve software engineering doing something practical with the chance for funding if you have your own company. Sole proprietorships are not that difficult to form. I formed one in my home state in about a week. Getting registered with SAM.gov [6] though is a PITA. Cannot downvote enough. Senators should forced forced to apply for grants and use Grants.gov and SAM.gov as form of torture.
5) Actual advice c) Try hardware using software engineering. Arduino, Raspberry Pi, Microcontrollers, drones, imagery, sensors, cell phone hardware features, automobile / airplane software, industrial automation, antennas and transmission systems, Personal Area Networks (PAN) [of Internet of Thing (IoT) devices], prosthetics, sound and audio hardware/tools, peripherals, network hardware, specific components (CPU, GPU, RAM, ROM, ect...), supercomputing, removables and media, robotics, large stuff (wind turbines, power plants, electric grids), home / yard automation, 3D printing, medical / health care devices, and experimental / academic devices.
[1] "Loyal workers are selectively and ironically targeted for exploitation" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00221...
[2] "Top 10 Streaming Shows by Category" https://www.nielsen.com/top-ten/
[3] "Public listing of Gov sponsored challenges" https://www.challenge.gov/
[4] "American Cities" http://forsako.rf.gd/AmericanCities/LibOfCongressGame.html?i...
[5] "NASA Solicitation and Proposal Integrated Review and Evaluation System" https://nspires.nasaprs.com/external/
[6] "The Official U.S. Government System for Contracts, GSA" https://sam.gov/content/home
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I've also gone in and out of software dev (don't really consider myself an engineer), with gaps of several years or longer in between. I did it part time for half a decade, full time for about a decade, and I'm back to part time now.
Other jobs in between were both enjoyable in and of themselves, but also made me see dev work in a different light. Namely, that it's super cushy but pretty soulless, lol. Definitely not for everyone, and not at every stage of their lives either. I would be happy to give up the cush for more meaning and fulfillment. Whether you would is up to you to find out!
A lot of dev work is becoming less relevant now too, now that the ad bubbles have burst, countries are cracking down on privacy, Skynet is just around the corner, etc. Maybe it's a good thing you have other skills!
If I were you, I'd use your youth not to fret about the past but to explore different options for the future. You're barely getting started. It's OK to try different things until you find one you like, do that for a bit, and then switch. My mom was an English major who switched careers four or five times, becoming happier each time. My dad was an engineer (civil/electrical) who had one job his entire career, and he was the most one-dimensional and unhappy person I ever knew, at least until he retired. Different life paths and outcomes.
Your CS degree wasn't wasted. You still have a bachelor's, which is more than most people can say. You learned enough to work on the field, but maybe didn't want to stay there forever. It's okay. Even if you do want to go back, it's like riding a bike, you just remember and pick it back up again. Sure, the frameworks and languages might change, and the person next to you might be a killer robot, but the underlying principles are probably still similar.
Your real job isn't coding, it's figuring out what would make you happy, fulfilled, and financially sustainable enough for the next few decades... but a few years at a time, typically, not all at once.