From a company that sell "full self-driving" cars that don't, you now, "self drive fully", I was kinda already expecting that whatever advertised range was, to put it nicely, a "large exageration".
The bit of code in the dashboard to exaggerate even more is a nice touch. I wonder what the commit message was for that PR ? (Or maybe Tesla does not do PRs or commits, and just let anyone build anything on their laptop and put the binaries in the car. I mean, all that "software engineering" process sounds like so much useless efforts, right ?)
Also, the author of the article takes a lot of pleasure in mentioning the EPA dozens of time - too bad the days of the agency are numbered.
Having road tripped from Florida to Washington and back in a big circle around the country, it is my firm belief that every single person complaining about the range estimates in a Tesla is speeding.
By altering my driving style, I can get more range than the estimate. It's extremely predictable and accurate, to the point where I can notice the power drain from the self driving computers/cameras, arrive at the next supercharger at exactly the 3% I aim for, etc.
There was a point in my road trip when I was on top of a mountain, and it said I would reach the next charger 100km away with 20km of range remaining, but I was only at 90km at the time. I made it with 17km of range remaining.
The estimates are really good and useful if you don't speed.
Tesla advertises 350+ miles on its cars. I’d bet money that the cars can’t do 300 in normal weather, normal driving conditions without the AC/heater on, on a straight road with no elevation gain.
These are the things they blame when they say EPA estimates are different becase blah blah…
(I own a Tesla)
Dont cancel the appointment, insist they repair it, do 3-4 attempts even if they close it as “expected characteristic” or “education”, then request a lemon law buy back for failure to honor the warranty. Check your purchase agreement for where to send the lemon law request. Demand incident compensation during the buyback if they failed to provide loaners.
Discussed at the time:
Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36891642 - July 2023 (746 comments)
The article really focusses on range loss when cold, but as far as I can see that isn't really true.
The reality is there is lots of range loss when using the cabin heater, which obviously one is most likely to do when cold. All modern Tesla's use heat pumps for cabin heating, which ~halves the range loss, but it's still substantial.
EPA is a cycle of speeds with a max of about 60 MPH. The EPA range is accurate if you drive the EPA cycle in your car - which obviously no one does. I feel like everyone knows this by now.
kind of odd article to post, just feels like rage bait
My 2022 EV6 comes pretty close to its advertised range: advertised as 310 miles, and I regularly get 240 out of an 80% charge (assuming I'm driving responsibly lol)
In related news, wltp range estimates today are even worse than epa estimates back then.
And the EPA standards have changed since then, so that newer Teslas are much closer to their rated ranges than they were back then.
Kind of weird to see this here now.
Driving range can be estimated well: my VW ID.4 is pretty good at it, and the range estimate that it shows can be relied upon after correcting for things like headwind or driving uphill.
The max range I get is pretty close to the advertised one, too.
So do not believe when somebody says it can't be done.
I have found Volkswagen’s range estimator and I think it’s trustworthy: https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/charging... I think, the range from here could be estimated for similar Tesla models too.
The fact is that WLTP is useless. I can do 2/3 WLTP range in summer and 1/3 WLTP range in winter on highway with long range Model Y. That’s bad joke. Luckily I drive long distances extremely seldom. Crawling at 60 mph all the time is not an option for me.
> Managers told the employees that they were saving Tesla about $1,000 for every canceled appointment, the people said. Another goal was to ease the pressure on service centers, some of which had long waits for appointments.
Foreshadowing.
Isnt the rated range always more than the actual you get? I have a friend who has a BYD Atto 3, rated range is 260 miles. Actual is 200 for city/town driving, 170 miles for motorway/highway driving.
IANAL but this seems like false advertising at best and fraudulent at worst.
I flew by a Cybertruck on the highway the other day like it was sitting still. It really should have had its hazards on, but I assume the additional power draw would have compounded the problem. Imagine spending all that money to compensate for your dominance anxiety, only to add range anxiety to your list of problems.
i own a tesla and range is very annoying, though some of the comments here are a bit sensationalist. for me, fsd more than makes up for it. if i had to buy a car today, i'd have to get another tesla because there's no alternative to fsd.
If you're not familiar with this story, the headline misses what seems to me like the bigger scandal, of Tesla rigging a dashboard instrument to lie:
> Tesla years ago began exaggerating its vehicles’ potential driving distance – by rigging their range-estimating software. The company decided about a decade ago, for marketing purposes, to write algorithms for its range meter that would show drivers “rosy” projections for the distance it could travel on a full battery, according to a person familiar with an early design of the software for its in-dash readouts.
> Then, when the battery fell below 50% of its maximum charge, the algorithm would show drivers more realistic projections for their remaining driving range, this person said.
IIUC, when many individual drivers were realizing that the rigged instrument didn't agree with reality of their car, they assumed their car was broken, and initiated service requests.
To reduce the costs of being caught in a lie, Tesla then created a team to again lie to customers, but this time it's humans lying one-on-one, rather than lying via rigged instruments.
Also consider things like Full Sell Driving misrepresentations, mishandling sensitive video surveillance from the cars, quality problems, and occasional 'retaliations' against those who complain, and it looks like Tesla might have a culture of dishonesty.
Hopefully other Musk-controlled companies have better cultures, since some of them are being put into positions of trust for the broader country and world. (Broader than safety of occupants of Teslas and any innocent bystander the car might crash into or harm with fire.)
The Tesla team also spys on their customers [1] but there was way more pearl clutching on HN about Mozillas ToS change.
[1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
Isnt every team in any company a secret?
Don't worry! Even if Tesla is collapsing under the CEO's public behavior, he will be able to use his position of influence to attract opaque investment in his other companies https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43317526
We have a model 3, shows 270 miles fully charged, we get < 200 miles on a good day.
Tesla is (in)famous for making unrealistic promises, and not delivering on them.
First to clear up my bias: Tesla is an overvalued scam company by a fascist techno-oligarch. I hope we will boycott this company in Europe just based on Elon Musk behaviour alone. This is my political opinion. With that out of the way...
My opinion as a driver is that these cars deliver far less value for the price than other EVs. I have driven Model 3 and Model Y so far and both experiences have been very mixed.
- I enjoyed the responsiveness and on-the-road feel of the car for the most part which is entirely crippled by feelings of a cheap suspension and weird steering. The cars feel like racing a plastics car barely holding it together, gives me vibes of cheap Korean cars back in the 2000s.
- I enjoy the clean interior design and wide views which are again crippled by low quality materials typically found in budget cars and low quality, cost-cutting material processing.
- Wtf is that UX? Everything hidden in weird submenus in a central touchscreen. The OS has been designed by engineers rather than UX professionals and they seem to never have driven a car other than on empty, sunny 20mph roads or a parking lot.
- The blinking UX is terrible and it's clear that this is the result of cost-cutting.
- Charging is the best experience among EVs. Others need to catch up, still in 2025...
I recently purchased new Y long range with “337” miles . Apparently EPA also applies a 0.7 handicap factor — a policy added in 2017 to address misleading range listings. My first 180m test drive completed within expectations , so things seemed great.
I then did what should have been an easy 270 mile drive and the planner warned it would not make it . I stopped in for a 10 mile top up and arrived with just 16 miles remaining. Thinking the return trip would be better due to the topography, I had about the same bad experience .
I’ve since learned that supercharger preconditioning kills 15-30 miles , so you need to fill up 50+ or you actually end up with less than if you hadn’t stopped. Even with this loss, the range doesn’t meet expectations .
Sure I did everything I could , including driving below the speed limit , using “chill model , preconditioning , departing at a scheduled time, avoiding climate control. I usually exceed EPA gas estimates due to my chill approach .
I was very disappointed for my brand new car to come up 20% short in what seemed to be nearly ideal conditions .
Over-promise and under-deliver seems to be the base of any Musk controlled org.
I hope someone will make driving range great again.
Am I supposed to interpret this as surprising or even scandalous? What's next, are you going to tell me they have a PR department?
Isn't this just fraud?
This sounds terrifying!
This nonsense again.
My 2020 S has a lifetime Wh/Mi of ~260. When the battery was new it was 96 kWh, that's 369 miles. And I floor that sucker all the time for fun, blast the stereo, and run the A/C constantly. Luggage rack on the roof.
At the end of the day, I've never had a real problem with the range. I definitely don't feel lied to. I wouldn't trade it for any other car in the world.
This company is a total dumpster fire. It will be amazing if their stock is above $50 this time next year.
> Recurrent conducted the study with the help of a National Science Foundation grant.
Uh-oh...
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Oh looks like there a lot of people in this boat. Things have been degrading over time for sure. My car seems to be consuming “battery miles” at more than twice the regular miles.
May be this is why musk got into politics, so he can kill any regulatory body investigating Tesla battery complaints.
I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe.
Also Tesla servicing is famously bad, and the way the employees treat service requests (as described in the article) explains a lot